How does Holden's talk with Carl Luce in The Catcher in the Rye chapter 19 address childhood and adulthood?

In chapter 19 of The Catcher in the Rye, Holden Caulfield meets an acquaintance that he refers to as “Old Luce” in a bar. Luce is older than Holden. At one point they were both at Wooten together and Luce was Holden’s student advisor. Luce is now a student at Columbia.

Holden is feeling lonely in the bar when he spots Luce, and he tries desperately to hold a conversation with him. Luce isn’t particularly interested in talking to Holden and chastises him repeatedly. At one point, Holden jokes about seeing a “flit” (homosexual) in the bar. He tells Luce that he saved the “flit” for him. Luce says,

Very funny. Same old Caulfield. When are you going to grow up?

Much of the rest of their conversation revolves around sex, as Holden attempts to get Luce to discuss his sex life, which Luce does not want to do. Their exchange shows Holden’s immaturity as he continues to badger Luce about his sex life after Luce repeatedly asks him to drop the subject.

Near the end of the conversation, Luce says, “Your mind is immature.” Holden responds with,

It is. It really is. I know it.

At least Holden recognizes his own immaturity, but then he lapses back into the topic of sex.

Finally, Luce suggests that Holden see a psychoanalyst to help him “recognize the patterns of his mind.”

Luce, as a character, is moving into adulthood. He is having a relationship with a mature woman and thinking about things like Eastern philosophy. Holden is still behaving in a childish way with his preoccupation about discussing sex with someone who doesn’t want to talk about it. He also fails to understand how Luce could be interested in an older Chinese woman unless it was for sexual reasons.

What does Holden discuss with Carl Luce in The Catcher in the Rye?

Holden has been thinking a lot about Jane during his time in New York City. He also hires a prostitute, though he doesn't sleep with her. With sex on his mind, he calls up Carl Luce and gets together with him because he wants to talk with him about sex. In one of Holden's old prep schools, Whooton, Luce was a student advisor and very knowledgeable about sex, a fact Holden remembers.

However, all his attempts to communicate with Luce at the bar misfire. Holden puts him off with rude and lame sex jokes at the beginning of the conversation, and after that, the two can't seem to connect. Holden also pretends he is sexually active, though we as readers know he is a virgin.

Holden gets most interested when Luce says he prefers "Eastern" sex because it combines the spiritual with the physical. In this conversation, as others, Holden is adamant about respecting the women you might be sleeping with, chiding Luce for calling a girlfriend a whore. Holdens asks him:

I know it's supposed to be physical and spiritual, and artistic and all. But what I mean is, you can't do it with everybody—every girl you neck with and all—and make it come out that way. Can you?

The conversation goes nowhere, and Luce eventually dismissively tells Holden that if he needs a psychoanalyst, he should call his father, who might be able to help him.

What does Holden discuss with Carl Luce in The Catcher in the Rye?

In the conversation with Luce, Holden reveals much sexual confusion.

Here's the scene's major points:

• Luce is an older, college student who goes to Columbia; he's similar to Stradlater from earlier chapters; Holden is secretly jealous of these men
• Luce used to talk about famous "flits" (homosexuals)
• Holden suspects that Luce was gay
• Luce is currently dating an older, Asian woman
• Luce says he prefers the Eastern view of sex over the Western one: the former values a spiritual and physical connection, while the latter stresses the physical too much.
• Luce tells Holden to go see a psychoanalyst; Luce himself gives him psychoanalytic advice.
• Holden has previously rejected psychoanalysis: "my lousy childhood" and "that David Copperfield crap"
• Holden is drunk and feeling sexy.
• Holden is "I'm so lonely I could die," which echoes Huck Finn's "I'm so lonesome I could die"
• Luce leaves Holden because the conversation is beneath him: Holden looks physically old, but he is still mentally immature.

Why is Holden's meeting with Luce at the Wicker Bar important in The Catcher in the Rye?

This episode occurs in Chapter Nineteen of this excellent coming-of-age novel, and it represents yet another attempt of Holden Caulfield to reach out and connect with someone and gain guidance in his situation. This time, however, he chooses Luce, who was a sexual expert when they were at school together and told the younger boys all about sex. Holden thinks that there is something quite "flitty" about Luce, even though apparently he is interested in women. As they meet, Holden seems to want to question Luce about sex and sexuality and is clearly looking for some kind of mature guidance, but he approaches the topic by displaying his immaturity:

"What're you majoring in?" I asked him. "Perverts?" I was only horsing around.

Luce refuses to respond to such jibes and after he leaves, Holden is left to feel somewhat disappointed with himself, even though he claims that Luce is a phony, suggesting that he really wanted to connect with him. Note Holden's appeal as Luce is leaving:

"Have just one more drink," I told him. "Please. I'm lonesome as hell. No kidding."

We need to remember how this event fits into the novel as a whole. We are presented with a series of interactions that Holden has where he tries to connect with others, but with each failure, Holden loses more faith both with humanity and with himself and is more and more desperate to connect and break the cycle of loneliness from which he suffers. Note the way that after Luce leaves, Holden tries to hit on two girls and then bursts into tears before leaving to walk in the freezing cold.