Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.Jesus forgiving sin is unjust to Victim.

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tinicraw's profile pic

tinicraw | High School Teacher | (Level 1) Educator Emeritus

Posted on

My understanding is that God will forgive whom he wants to forgive, but of us, it is required to forgive 7 X 70. This equation is symbolic to mean that we may need to forgive every time we think of the injustice that has befallen us (or the victim). I used to feel the same way. I used to ask my attorney father, "Where is JUSTICE when a criminal walks free!?" I would also ask him all of these same questions you ask above. His response was that without Mercy, there is no Justice. The two need to go together in order for each to work correctly.  Throughout my life I have learned that those who offend, and we all do at some point, don't walk away unhurt. The offender is hurt, too, although we may not see it. They have to live with the consequences of their actions; whereas, through forgiveness, the victim can heal and move on. In the end, I give it up so the offender won't have control over me and I hope Karma/God/the Universe, whoever, takes care of the offender with both Justice and Mercy so that both of them can be paid in full.

shake99's profile pic

shake99 | Teacher | (Level 3) Senior Educator

Posted on

Post #3 raises a good point. Failure to forgive hurts the person who does not forgive. The act of forgiving is very difficult and requires that we allow our base nature to change from something human and corrupt to something closer to the model that Jesus provided.

litteacher8's profile pic

litteacher8 | High School Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted on

I can see how you would interpret forgiveness for a crime as an insult to the victim, but I think the point is that the victim also has to find some kind of forgiveness.   The forgiveness is not really going to help the perpetrator.  However, lack of forgiveness will lead to hate and bitterness on the part of the victim.  Forgiving the perpetrator may be the only way for the victim to move on.  In this way, I think Jesus is being a good role model.

pohnpei397's profile pic

pohnpei397 | College Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted on

I disagree with your premise.  Christian teaching does not tell us that Jesus forgives sins "for free."  Instead, people actually have to repent and change in order to be forgiven.  It is of course hard for a victim to handle this, but that is part of what makes us human and not divine.

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rrteacher | College Teacher | (Level 2) Educator Emeritus

Posted on

There is, maybe, a tension between forgiveness of sin and obtaining justice for crimes. I think the most common way to resolve this tension would be to say that forgiveness does not necessarily mean that one should not be held accountable for their crimes. People can still be prosecuted under law whether or not their victims, or their families, forgive the accused. 

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greatest-i-am | (Level 1) Honors

Posted on

Post #3 raises a good point. Failure to forgive hurts the person who does not forgive. The act of forgiving is very difficult and requires that we allow our base nature to change from something human and corrupt to something closer to the model that Jesus provided.

A model that says that the innocent should be punished for the guilty.

This is good policy to you is it?

Perhaps we should insist that our courts do the same idiocy.

Read my answers above please before putting your other foot in your mouth.

Regards

DL

 

greatest-i-am's profile pic

greatest-i-am | (Level 1) Honors

Posted on

I can see how you would interpret forgiveness for a crime as an insult to the victim, but I think the point is that the victim also has to find some kind of forgiveness.   The forgiveness is not really going to help the perpetrator.  However, lack of forgiveness will lead to hate and bitterness on the part of the victim.  Forgiving the perpetrator may be the only way for the victim to move on.  In this way, I think Jesus is being a good role model.

If Jesus already forgave the sin, then what is there for the victim to forgive?

How many times does a sin need to be forgiven?

Just once as far as I know.

Who needs closure, God or the victim?

Read the post just above please and rethink.

Regards

DL

 

greatest-i-am's profile pic

greatest-i-am | (Level 1) Honors

Posted on

I disagree with your premise.  Christian teaching does not tell us that Jesus forgives sins "for free."  Instead, people actually have to repent and change in order to be forgiven.  It is of course hard for a victim to handle this, but that is part of what makes us human and not divine.

I see. As I said, the victim is ignored and that is immoral.

Jesus may know that the rapist repented the very next day and thus forgives him but I guess that if you see the victim, who bumps into her rapist the next day, as he goes about free, as just something she has to live with even if hard to take.

Thanks for showing your lack of concern for justice or compasion for the victim.

Regards

DL

 

greatest-i-am's profile pic

greatest-i-am | (Level 1) Honors

Posted on

There is, maybe, a tension between forgiveness of sin and obtaining justice for crimes. I think the most common way to resolve this tension would be to say that forgiveness does not necessarily mean that one should not be held accountable for their crimes. People can still be prosecuted under law whether or not their victims, or their families, forgive the accused. 

To forgive someone for sin as you say, does not take away accountability.

It does take away the need for a God to forgive though because the sin only needs to be forgiven once. Not twice.

As to crimes, it is in most cases that the victim lays the charge and without his or her testimony, the case will fail. Even a rape victim who feels that she has forgiven the infraction cannot be forced to testify.

In cases of murder, this is not applicable of course and the state lays the charge for the victims who cannot. 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

 

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