God and Devil in heavenAccording to revelations 12:10, God has triumph over Devil. Lets ponder upon this point. God to me has no beginning or end but he is the one that holds everything in...

God and Devil in heaven

According to revelations 12:10, God has triumph over Devil. Lets ponder upon this point. God to me has no beginning or end but he is the one that holds everything in between. So, am I right to think that by the time God created the heavens and earth, he had already created the Devil and all heavenly beings?

So, should we say creating devil if he was created was an error God has to live with, but then heaven is a holly peaceful paradise place full of gold streets  e.t.c. So, how did evil spirit feature or come into existence in Lucifer, Since God is holly, creator and onmipotent (all knowing)?

Revelations 12:10

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Asked on by mylord123

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belarafon's profile pic

belarafon | High School Teacher | (Level 2) Educator Emeritus

Posted on

In Jewish scripture, which ends before the New Testament, there is no defined "devil" as such; instead, evil in the world is attributed to the free will of Man and the ability of performing evil when he chooses to. After discovering the Knowledge of Good and Evil -- in itself an abstract that can only be defined by specific context -- Man became able to do evil things, where he could not before because he could not define or understand it. Evil, then, is entirely in the capacity of Man. Any angels who perform evil deeds are doing so at the behest of God, who is assumed or explicitly declared to be testing Man's resolve and capacity for good deeds -- Jewish Angels have no free will and are of a lower order than Man, even though they occupy a higher place in Heaven, because they cannot act on their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil#Judaism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#Hebrew_Bible

literaturenerd's profile pic

literaturenerd | High School Teacher | (Level 2) Educator Emeritus

Posted on

Another hard question. I believe that God makes no mistakes. I believe that God knows what he is doing in regards to life on earth and the sins mankind have. God gave man free will and, therefore, had to create a place for those who choose not to follow him. Therefore, He knew what he was doing.

accessteacher's profile pic

accessteacher | High School Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted on

This is of course a big question, and I would respond to it by refering to the vexing issue of free will. God created humans to be in relationship with him, yet if he programmed us to love him that would negate that love, as we would be nothing more than robots doing what we were programmed to do. The existence of evil and of the devil indicates that there is another possibility, that we can choose not to be in relationship with God. Because God wants our genuine love and a relationship with us, there has to be this alternative possibility.

kplhardison's profile pic

Karen P.L. Hardison | College Teacher | eNotes Employee

Posted on

The presupposition of your question is that God created evil and the Devil. The account recorded in the Jewish Torah, which Christians and others call the Old Testament, says that Lucifer, who later became known as Satan, was the highest angel created with the most honor and power of all angels in Heaven. It can be inferred from this that angels have the power of vanity, ambition, self-aggrandizement and error in loyalty since the account further suggests that Lucifer became covetous of the place of supreme power held by God and desired to be like God--to be equal to God. This covetousness led to the conflict in Heaven that led to Lucifer and his legions of faithful followers being cast from Heaven to "the world" to dwell and rule there.

From this it becomes apparent that God did not create evil. God created angels who have--as humans have--the power of thought, rational reasoning, erroneous reasoning, covetousness, ambition, vanity, pride, loyalty, freedom of choice, etc. It then follows that Lucifer and the legions of his followers acted from covetousness and ambition etc to attempt to establish what they thought to be a reasonable substitute for the established order. From this it follows that the definition of what humanity calls "evil" has its roots in covetousness, ambition, vanity, and self-aggrandizement mistakenly pursued to ill-judged ends through erroneous reasoning.

Therefore the ultimate question reveals itself to be--not "Why did God create evil?" because the account being referred to is clear that he did not create evil, he created angels--but rather, "Why did God create the legitimate and authentic power of independent thought, volition and action?" And in that you have the paradox of how the greatest good can turn inward on itself--become self-centered--to become the greatest harm.

pohnpei397's profile pic

pohnpei397 | College Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted on

So many of your discussion questions have this same theme -- about God and Satan.  I don't see the problem here.  As I have said before, if there's no possibility of evil, there's no possibility of good.  God had to make all creatures with the possibility of both good and evil, so of course some chose evil.  I don't see where this is that much of a theological problem.

ms-charleston-yawp's profile pic

Noelle Thompson | High School Teacher | eNotes Employee

Posted on

Actually, there is a very definite story as to how this happened.  Belief in this story, however, is a matter of faith and not fact.

Supposedly, as part of the answer to your question, it happened even before God created the Earth.  It all has to do with free will.  Lucifer used to be one of the archangels.  Eventually, he became overly ambitious and thought he could be better than God it is said that Lucifer wanted "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high", ... God allowed this to happen (as God allows many bad things to happen) because of Lucifer's free will.  Lucifer chose to turn against God and, as a result, was thrown into the pit of fire that we know of as hell.

Saint Michael the Archangel is a kind of foil to Lucifer.  As such, Saint Michael is still an Archangel in Heaven, ... and why Roman Catholics ask him to "defend us in battle [&] be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil."

At this point, it would be really wonderful if you read Milton's Paradise Lost! That will give you another (perhaps even more interesting) interpretation on the story. : )

litteacher8's profile pic

litteacher8 | High School Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted on

I think this is another question that can't be answered.  A religious scholar might give you a better answer, but I would return to the concept of free will.  If God had not created humans with free will, then there would be no need for the Devil.

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