The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace,
not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews),
nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).
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In reply to 18:
Please read my post 14. Those who are involved in killing of the innocent, to whatever religion the killed may belong, are using only the name of Islam. One does not become a Muslim by chanting Allah-o-Akbar. One has to prove it by his/her deeds. Those who are involved in such killings are the wolfs in sheep clothing.
Hey Mr Babu,
I know that Islam has a dark past as well as a dark side (or religion if you like), but I also know that for my Muslim friends, Islam provides community and comport. I say that Islam has two sides because my Muslim (and Christian and Hindu and Jewish) friends live here in the United States because Muslims kill Muslims in their home countries.
The violent people claim they act in the name of Allah. They yell Allah akbar. A bomb explodes. For a moment anyone still alive hears only silence. Then they hear the ball bearings, which provide shrapnel in the bomb, dropping to and rolling on the ground. They see body parts. They hear the victims scream. They see the walls splattered with blood.
And the bombers go to school to learn to kill. But to what end? How does the almost daily violence of Sunni Killing Shia advance Islam?
you are wrong, islam doesnt have a dark side. rather its a dark religion.
quran is a blend of pirated work of mohammad during 7th century, and was spread to justify mohammad's political ambition to become supreme leader of the arabian peninsula. if you read the quran, you can find how each of the mohammad's mean acts of paedophilia, lust, and establishment of power was justified by quran. when he needed to marry and molest a 9 year old girl, he resorted to so called allah, when he needed to exploit ignorant arabs, he abused so called allah, he justified his lust for women through quran (as you surely know he was a poligamist). none of the other religions as we know today did find their way on the earth with so many wars and invasions. quran is a compilation of haphazard sentences borrowed from various sources such as torah, bible, poetry of imrul quis, oral poets of noufayl (these 2 are poets of mohammad's time or a little earlier)
if you read the sura fatiha with meaning, you can understand that mohammad revealed these verses to mohammad himself.
if you have interest to know more, i think you should read the quran with its meanings, and find how many times it says about prayer and how many times it says about war (jihad).
if someone needs so many wars to justify a revelation, in what light would you explain that revelation?
It has surely made me understand things better too with the exception of a remark made by you:
However, Islam has a dark side. - Eto
I don't know how do you reach this conclusion after all this discussion. Let this be resolved in some future discussion. Thanks for discussion topic that provided me the opportunity to explain.
Hey Mr Najm,
Thank you for your help. I'm sure I understand Islam better now that we have had this conversation. I can see how in day to day life Islam is not about hating Jews or anybody else.
I have a cousin who lives near a mosque in Anaheim, California. If we jog on Fridays, north to the Santa Fe mainline, we pass Muslim families going to the mosque. And like I said, I attended school with at least four Muslim students. They all seem like kind and gentle people.
However, Islam has a dark side.
And about me being Jewish. We have a family joke about how some of us are Jews. Many of us have the family name, Thornberg. The Thornbergs are Bible-thumping, devil-hating, soul-winning Baptists, or so they say.
Over the last seventy years while members of my family have served in the American Armed Forces, they have acquired spouses from around the world. My mother might have been a Chinese Buddhist or a Yoruban, and instead of attending church once a week, I would pray in the temple once a year or sacrifice chickens to find my destiny.
I have one aunt who claims to be a Jew. She speaks Yiddish, so maybe she is. She claims that all bankers are Jews, so I asked her if David Rockefeller, the longtime CEO of the Chase Bank, was a Jew. She said, “In disguise”
Sura 1:1-7 does not specify Jews. Please refer to my post 6 wherein I have mentioned some of the people who have been subjected to wrath in addition to Jews. In daily contact prayers, Muslims seek Allah's help to be not from all those.
I suspect that my classmate’s parent’s do think that Sura 1 refers to Jews... - Eto
Your suspicion exists because you are also Jewish as I know from your posts on this site. You are right in saying:
Sura 1 has nothing to do with the violence. - Eto
It is a reaffirmation of their being servants of Allah in seeking His guidance and help to stay on the right path.
Killing of Muslim by so called Muslims is only due to their ignorance. A Muslim has been prohibited to kill any innocent irrespective of his religion or race.
For this reason have We prescribed for the children of Israel that who kills a person without the latter guilty of killing another or doing evil in land, then his action is such as if he had killed all mankind. And he who saves one life is as if he had saved all mankind. And most certainly Our messengers came to them with clear proofs, most of them, surely, even after that, act wastefully in the land. Quran 5:32
And this holds for Muslims too. Those who call themselves Muslims but indulge in killing without justification as mentioned in Quran 5:32 must reflect and see if they are Muslims.
I must wonder how one can go through life praying thirty-two times a day about how Jews have incurred God’s wrath and do nothing about it. So many Muslims have a hatred of Jews; it’s almost the sixth pillar of Islam, so I had wondered if for some people, Sura 1 might be a call to arms.
However, most of the violence in the Muslim world happens when Muslims kill Muslims, so maybe Sura 1 has nothing to do with the violence.
One should note that English translations of Sura 1 do not normally mention Jews. The first time I read Sura 1, I did not understand that it said anything about Jews. When I asked my Muslim classmates about the meaning of those upon whom be (Thy) wrath and how it refers to Jews; all of them denied that it referred to Jews. They insisted it refers to anyone who takes the wrong path, anyone who does not accept Islam.
However, I suspect that my classmate’s parent’s do think that Sura 1 refers to Jews, but I don’t have the chutzpah to ask because I have seen the beady-eyed rage associated with anything to do with Jews.
Muslims recite sura 1 a minimum of 32 times a day wherein they pray:
We commence with the name of Allah, the most Merciful (to begin with), the most Merciful (to the end). All prayers belong to Allah, Lord of all the worlds. The most Merciful (to begin with), the most merciful (to the end).
Master of the day of Judgement.
Thee alone do we serve, and Thee alone do we ask for help. Guide us to the right path, the path of those upon whom be Thy blessing, not of those upon whom be (Thy) wrath, nor of those who are lost.
Please note that Muslims pray to save themselves of the wrath of Allah seeking His guidance to the right path. Muslims do not seek wrath of Allah on any one in their daily prayes.
Daily contact prayers are to seek Allahs help and guidance to the right path so that they be able to serve him as He desires. Muslims are to save humanity and bid them to the right path so that the whole humanity has the blessing of Allah.
Of all the communities raised amongst mankind you are the best, (for) you bid them to good and you forbid them doing wrong, and you believe in Allah. And if the people of the Book had also believed, surely it would have been better for them! But majority of them are disobedient.
How many times day does a Muslim repeat Sura 1-7 during his or her daily prayers?
It's a matter between Allah and Jews. May be Jews recognise how many times a day they are being cursed by Allah or whether is it a perpetual curse on them. They are like those who have been described as:
Surely as to those who disbelief, it is all one to them whether thou warn them or thou warn them not - They will not believe. Upon their hearts, and upon their ears, has God set a seal; And upon their eyes there is a covering, and for them is a great agony. Quran 2:6
Muslims know it only because Allah said so. It's a matter of belief.
Howmany times a day do Muslims recognize that Allah has cursed e Jews?
Muslim are not there to curse the creation by Allah. Islam stands for peace and so do Muslims.
Allah is the Almighty. Muslims as human beings are His creation. And the curse of Almighty does not need any help nor it can be averted by anyone.
And whoever seeks faith other than Al-Islam then never shall it be accepted from him and he shall be in the Future be a looser.
How is God to guide a people who choose disbelief after their believing, and (after) becoming witnesses that the messenger is right; and (after) clear signs have come to them? And God guides not a people who are unjust.
These! There reward is on them the disapproval (curse) of God, and of the messenger-spirits and of mankind all together:
In it they abide; Their agony shall not be lightened on them, nor shall they be respited. Quran 3:84-87
Please note that the curse is of mankind all together, not Muslims alone, and the reference is to the life hereafter.
When a group of people incur the curse of Allah, will those people incur the curse of Muslims?
Quran narates the stories of many prophets where their people did not pay any heed to the words of the prophet and continues to live a life of sin and did not abandon what they were asked to. They had the wrath of Allah and got perished from the surface of the earth. Surah 26 (Ash-Shuara/The Poets) give the stories of a few that include:
The people of Noah (Verses 105-122)
The brothers (nation) of Hud (Verses 123-140)
The brothers of Saleh - The Thamud (Verses 141-159)
The people of Lot (Verses 160-175)
The companions of the forest - The people of Shoaib Verses (176-191)
And many more of whom only some are mentioned in Quran as an example. Jews are subjected to wrath because they have the knowledge of the last messenger Mohammad but they belie him.
And most surely this (Quran) is a sending down of the Lord of the worlds. The trustworthy spirit has come down with it. Upon thy heart that thou mayest be of those who warn, in clear Arabic language. And most surely it is (so mentioned) in the scriptures-of the ancients. Now is not there a sign for them in the fact that learned amongst the children of Israel know it?
Those whom we have given the Book recognise him (Mohammad) as they recognise their (own) sons, but a party of them do surely conceal the truth the while they know. The truth is from thy Lord, therefore be not of those who dispute.(Quran 2:146-147)
Besides the Jews, has any other group of people incurred the curse of Allah and his wrath?
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