What do you think of the always popular debate of CREATIONISM .VS. EVOLUTION?The popular media often portrays the creation vs. evolution debate as science vs. religion, with creation being...

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Creationism

What do you think of the always popular debate of CREATIONISM .VS. EVOLUTION?

The popular media often portrays the creation vs. evolution debate as science vs. religion, with creation being religious and evolution being scientific. Unfortunately, if you don't agree with this label, you too are labeled. Regardless of whether you're a creationist or an evolutionist, if you disagree with the stereotype, you're condemned and "exposed" as a religious fanatic who is secretly trying to pass religion off as science or, even worse, trying to disprove science in order to redeem a ridiculous, unscientific, religious worldview. The fact is neither model of origins has been established beyond a reasonable doubt (otherwise, the theory of evolution wouldn't be called the "theory" of evolution). Whether we like to admit it or not, those of us who subscribe to the theory of evolution do so by faith. And while the recognition of design in biology may have theological implications, it is not based upon religious premise - it's based upon empirical observation and logic.

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cburr's profile pic

Posted on

It's sad that this topic always leads to such divisive commentary. 

For those who have a literal belief in the biblical story of creation, it's really pretty irrelevant what theories scientists come up with.  Religious devotion is, by definition, a matter of faith and therefore has little to do with proof.  The whole point of faith is that it doesn't require proof.

For those of a more secular bent, scientific theories hold more sway.  Therefore, the substantial mass of scientific evidence in favor of the theory of evolution is likely to be compelling.

Neither of these positions is wrong -- they just need to be understood for what they are.  

When it comes to what is taught in schools, my own feeling is that schools must present the theory of evolution in the context of science.  Families whose faith supports the creationist approach shouldn't actually be concerned about this -- rather, they should explain to their children that their belief is a matter of faith.

Of course, there are those who try to find a middle ground.  This is fine for those who are trying to resolve their own confusion, but it doesn't change the fact that faith and science are fundamentally different. 

engtchr5's profile pic

Posted on

For the sake of discussion, let's completely take the idea of God out of creationism. At first, it may seem impossible, but really, now, what if all creation was initiated, not by a grand omnipotent being, but instead, let's stretch our minds and say that aliens are responsible. Creatures from other galaxies visited the Milky Way eons ago, and initiated life as we know it. Even then, there remains a source of creation. There has to be a first domino in order for a domino effect to take place; moreover, there has to be a "push" in order to initiate that effect. In evolution, we seem to have a first domino (in the form of the aforementioned chemicals), but no real way of knowing who set up and "pushed" it. Pardon the extended analogy.

engtchr5's profile pic

Posted on

In reponse to #46: So, which is more believable, in the grand scheme of things: A.) Pre-existing chemicals with no known source randomly began copying themselves and produced all creation as we know it, or B.) A grand omnipotent being created the heavens and the earth, period?

Even the most logical of minds cannot argue against the fact that all things must have a point of origin, and in the case of evolution, we have no real source to speak of. We are simply asked to assume that chemicals were already in place by some unknown happenstance.  

 "You have not given this enough thought or imagination."

Um, we are still talking about science, right? Here's an oxymoron for you: "Imaginative science." That might make a great slogan for some company out there, but in all truth, the two concepts are polar opposites of one another. Imagination and creativity are part and parcel of each other, but science prides itself in dealing with what is concrete and absolutely black-and-white factual.  

And yet, we still have this "theory" hanging out there, wagging its hypothetical nature in our faces. Granted, both creationism and evolution are theories, but by allowing ourselves the humanity to imagine, we are no longer engaging in science, but creative speculation (in both evolutionary and creationist cases).

"...but all open-minded, highly-educated people who have looked into this subject are forced to conclude...."

Subtle condescension makes poor and petty arguments. Please limit your responses to valid addresses of the topic at hand. Personal attacks serve only to discredit your stance. 

engtchr5's profile pic

Posted on

So, here's a question included with my answer: Is it scientifically possible to believe in adaptation without believing in academically-described evolution? In other words, can one (as I do) believe that we as mortal beings alter to suit our surroundings while still believing that the idea of evolution is horribly misguided?

Here's my reasoning: In my lifetime, I have seen physical evidence of human adaptation just observing living, breathing, humans. I do not need a book or "expert" to interpret my own personal observations. However, I have no reason to believe that a biogenetic puddle suddenly sprang minute cellular structures into evental life, as evolution would have us believe. Such an assertion begs the question -- where did the "puddle" come from in the first place? Who or what made it? I have seen no concrete evidence for the verification of biogenesis, but I have seen miraculous, scientifically inexplicable works in nature itself. Such first-hand knowledge tends to make me favor creationism over evolutionism as it stands today.

linda-allen's profile pic

Posted on

@36 My my my... you really don't like jokes, do you Linda? And repeatedly saying, "I can't take the naughty man seriously cos he made a funny on his bio" is rather tiresome. Just for the record Linda, I'm not really a baboon, honest. (I share 98% genetic similarity with a baboon though)

Evolution is not speculation. Your 'Discovery Institute' may say it is, but they are fooling you. Along with stuff about boats on mountains and middle eastern archaeology. The psuedo-scientific sources you quote are shunned by the scientific community as charlatans whose aim is to prove the Bible is correct. Unfortunately for these websites, they can't do that, it's impossible, so they distort the scientific facts (up to and including changing the speed of light, the most fundamental constant of universal physics, they just give it a quick tinker and Hey Presto! You can prove the earth is 4000 years old.) This IMMEDIATELY excludes them from serious scientific discussion. If you took the time to read some independent publications, you would quickly find out you are being misled. There is solid evidence for evolution. There is (literally) mountains of it. I swear to you, you have been tricked by people who know you are not very good at science and take advantage of that.

(Just for fun Linda... which came first, the chicken or the egg? and, yes, there is an answer, evolution has even answered this parlour-game paradox.)

I'm tired of jousting with you. Sure, I like jokes as much as anybody else. What I don't like is a pseudointellectual who can't stand the fact that lots of people disagree with him.

As for the chicken and the egg, why don't you tell me? You seem to think you know everything.

linda-allen's profile pic

Posted on

No, evolution is still speculation. There is no solid evidence that one creature turned into another creature.

Again, given your cynicism about your own biography, how can anyone take you seriously?

alohaspirit's profile pic

Posted on

I think that schools should be able to teach different theories and let the students make up their own mind, but when there is solid evidence of one of theories, that should be taught.  I am sorry, evidence will always rule over belief.

enotechris's profile pic

Posted on

 In reply to #16 replying to #13:

 You're Welcome! 

 lotsa good it did........:|  As they say in debate school, let's agree to disagree and not be disagreeable.

linda-allen's profile pic

Posted on

Was not Darwin--who only published his theory of evolution when he learned that someone else who came up with it after he did was going to--a very religious man?  Remember that he planned to become a minister before he sailed to the Galapagos Islands.

Why, then, do people insist upon reading atheism into evolution?  I understand the Fundamentalists's point of view/Creationsim will not work, but what about other Christians's views?

Exactly! That is what Intelligent Design is all about.

linda-allen's profile pic

Posted on

"I thank you for allowing others to see your anger and how lost you are. Come into the light, Frizzyperm."

Come into the brain removal center more like. Yes! I'm lost. It is human nature to be scared and worried and uncertain. The world is a dangerous cold place full of terrible things. You're lost too. But you've taken on a 100% delusion in order to feel safe, loved and 'special'. You're still lost. And more so than me. 

I refuse to hypnotise myself with a load of mumbo-jumbo just so I can slap a half-dazed smile on my face. I'm emotionally mature enough to recognise my own desire to foist responsibilities onto a Eternal Celestial Mommy. AND YET I DON'T.

Hurricanes and cancer are not good. It is you who should 'come into the light' because you are clearly having problems seeing what is obvious.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. If you don't believe in it, why does it make you so angry? Amy wrote to you in a calm, reasonable manner. Why do you have to attack her?

parkerlee's profile pic

Posted on

"I thank you for allowing others to see your anger and how lost you are. Come into the light, Frizzyperm."

Come into the brain removal center more like. Yes! I'm lost. It is human nature to be scared and worried and uncertain. The world is a dangerous cold place full of terrible things. You're lost too. But you've taken on a 100% delusion in order to feel safe, loved and 'special'. You're still lost. And more so than me. 

I refuse to hypnotise myself with a load of mumbo-jumbo just so I can slap a half-dazed smile on my face. I'm emotionally mature enough to recognise my own desire to foist responsibilities onto a Eternal Celestial Mommy. AND YET I DON'T.

Hurricanes and cancer are not good. It is you who should 'come into the light' because you are clearly having problems seeing what is obvious.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. If you don't believe in it, why does it make you so angry? Amy wrote to you in a calm, reasonable manner. Why do you have to attack her?

I too thank God that "I am fearfully and wonderfully made." Christ's "entry" (no, not a Starman!) to the Planet and his historical existence, isn't that a good example of God's intervention into the affairs of man?

But I see your reasoning  process "(no.26)and  that you lack and want empirical evidence. Why not read Evidence Demands a Verdict written by another non-compromising truth-seeker out for proof He is really there?

alexb2's profile pic

Posted on

Let's just make sure to keep all conversations civil on eNotes. People have different opinions but most of all we're here to learn and to teach. Our conversations are read by students and let's keep them informative. Thanks guys.

mwestwood's profile pic

Posted on

Was not Darwin--who only published his theory of evolution when he learned that someone else who came up with it after he did was going to--a very religious man?  Remember that he planned to become a minister before he sailed to the Galapagos Islands.

Why, then, do people insist upon reading atheism into evolution?  I understand the Fundamentalists's point of view/Creationsim will not work, but what about other Christians's views?

amy-lepore's profile pic

Posted on

I do thank you for this conversation.  I thank you for allowing others to see your anger and how lost you are.  Come into the light, Frizzyperm.  Did you check out www.anchorstone.com?  You will find your proof there.  There is a God.  He does care for us.  Even you, who deny Him.  Don't wait too late...join others like C.S. Lewis before you. 

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