Many people believe the universe was made by a creator. I often believe this too. But... if you need a creator to make the universe, don't you need a creator to make 'the creator of the universe'?
1) More complex things make less complex things.
2) So complex things need a more complex creator.
We see smiths make horseshoes, we don't see horseshoes make smiths. We see bakers make pies, we don't see pies make bakers. Complex things make less complex things. Less complex things do not make more complex things.
The universe is complex. Therefore God is more complex than the universe. Therefore God is very complex. But complex things need a creator!?!
If God is very complex, doesn't that mean that you need something very, very complex to create Him?
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I don't see that you can logically prove or disprove the existence of God in this way. Nor can you prove or disprove the idea that God must himself have been created by something else. If there is a God (which science and logic cannot tell us for certain), that God could very well exist outside the rules of nature. In other words, even if all things in our universe must have been made by something, God may not be of our universe. Therefore, God may not have to conform to the same rules that govern everything else.
Dear Stegny, you are confused because you are trapped in an 'infinite regress'. It is a well-understood philosophical paradox. The most famous 'infinite regress' is the 'chicken or egg' problem. Each time you try to land on an answer, it slips one step back to its previous position.
The reason you are in an infinite regress is because you have an error in your thinking. And I can show it to you...
We see smiths make horseshoes, we don't see horseshoes make smiths. We see bakers make pies, we don't see pies make bakers. Complex things make less complex things. Less complex things do not make more complex things. - Stegny
You have been bamboozled by the appearance of design in nature. Nature only looks like it was purposefully designed. Less complex things do make more complex things... it is called 'evolution'. The complexity of life on Earth evolved over billions of years through the processess of evolution.
Your infinite regress is due to an unproved assumption that complex things need a designer. But biology has proved that you don't need a designer to achieve complexity.
I choose to believe that God exists. He is the beginning and the end. I have prayed simple prayers and complex prayers and had them answered. There must be a God for he lives inside of me. He states that He is the great I am and that is good enough for me. I have faith in what I cannot readily see. I have faith because I can feel God even though I have never seen him with the physical eye. I don't know how he was created. I don't dwell on things I can't understand. I understand there is a God and that is good enough for me.
I, too, don't waste my time and energy trying to understand - I believe and live my life firmly grounded in that belief that God lives and loves. I don't have to be able to rationally explain how God came to exist - all that matters to me is that God does exist and that I'm doing my best to live as God wants me to.
Stegny, there are many questions in life that you or I or anyone else will not be able to answer, since we all are mere human beings. Some day, I may ask God for some of the answers directly when I see Him on the other side of this life, but I'll probably be too busy worshipping to care or question at that point.
I admit that there is a God ( Allah) who creates this world.
As we see if there is no line or boundry or criteria to compete two lines then how we know that this one is large and this one is small. Same in this case there was no one who can explain how much Higher is God( Allah). Allah makes this universe and then go upto the skies.
As no one can put a whole sea in a bascket , same is case its difficult to put whole Allah in a small mind.
Creation never get hold on Creater. what do you say ?
Since the original question has no answer that anyone can give, for certain, I would divert the gist of it and ask: WHAT do people do with those customized "gods" or "God" that they have been indoctrinated to believe in?
I live in the middle hole of the bible belt, right on the part where the belt gets quite tight, seemingly preventing oxygen to reach the part of the Southern brain that deals with common sense.
However, not one of my very sanctimonious and puritanical neighbors has an inch of mercy for anybody who does not look, talk, or worship THEIR way.
Which makes me wonder, this "God" people seem to mold like play-dough to meet their very personal needs: wouldn't he or she be a bit disappointed with half of the people who claim to be his followers?
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