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I believe that Orwell's vision in 1984 has come to pass. You?What marvels me is that...

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discussion1984 | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted August 25, 2012 at 7:47 PM via web

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I believe that Orwell's vision in 1984 has come to pass. You?

What marvels me is that this book was written in 1949 (before the age of television, internet, and advanced technology) but that it describes life in the 21st Century almost exactly. Specifically what is amazing is Orwell's description of the modern police surveillance state that has civilian spies and spying technology monitoring every aspect of individual life. Did you know that what we watch on TV just as in Owell's screen monitors are recorded and monitored by police? Did you know that emails, telephone calls, and all types of communication are also? Did you know that just as in the book, children are recruited to be the eyes and ears of the police state since before they can speak? And isn't in interesting how "social media" communication is eerily similar to the type of speech forced upon people in the book?--"OMG, lol." Make no mistake, the description of insane asylums and prisons, and their authorities is also right on mark, especially if you dare speak about our modern police state. He even got the part about affecting the heat of the core of the earth right--did you know that's what HAARP can do? The man envisioned it all, not under communism or capitalism, but under what we know now in the 21st Century as everyday social life. The book is a military and para-military vision of utopia.  

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pohnpei397 | College Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted August 25, 2012 at 9:23 PM (Answer #2)

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I am pretty surprised by your statement that the police monitor what we watch on our televisions and what we say in our emails and phone calls.  I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this.  It seems very unlikely that A) the police would have the technology to do some of this (monitoring what we watch on TV), B) they would be interested in doing so, and C) that they would have the manpower to surveil us to the extent that you suggest.

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discussion1984 | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted August 26, 2012 at 9:29 PM (Answer #3)

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I am pretty surprised by your statement that the police monitor what we watch on our televisions and what we say in our emails and phone calls.  I would be very interested in seeing evidence of this.  It seems very unlikely that A) the police would have the technology to do some of this (monitoring what we watch on TV), B) they would be interested in doing so, and C) that they would have the manpower to surveil us to the extent that you suggest.

Well, there are three responses: the first is: 'Yes, the police do do this.' The second is: 'If they did, do you think they would make this public or provide evidence for it? Did the Department of Truth make their efforts known to the general public? Did not the document proving those criminals innocent no longer exist because the Department of Truth (mostly O'Brien) said it did not exist? The world in which the media and other sources are able to report on what those in power do is a mythical one. They let you know what they want you to know. Finally, as a general point: 'The technology to surveil people's communication and internet is there. Ask any expert.'

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mwalter822 | Teacher | (Level 2) Educator

Posted August 27, 2012 at 2:30 PM (Answer #4)

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I think that society has reached a point where many of the conditions described in 1984 are becoming possible. I don't think we're being monitored that closely, at least not the average Joes among us. It does make Orwell look like a pretty smart guy though.

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discussion1984 | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted August 27, 2012 at 10:01 PM (Answer #5)

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I think that society has reached a point where many of the conditions described in 1984 are becoming possible. I don't think we're being monitored that closely, at least not the average Joes among us. It does make Orwell look like a pretty smart guy though.

Well, I think he had experience with the inner workings of these organizations, so he was offering us a glimpse at what is now the present. It's never the important people that are monitored, but the people no one ever has to worry about because the important people are untouchable by the system, and there must be an excuse, a reason d'etre for these organizations, and that excuse is the average person usually minding his own business.

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litteacher8 | Middle School Teacher | (Level 1) Distinguished Educator

Posted October 1, 2012 at 4:54 AM (Answer #6)

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We are living in an Orwellian future in some respects.  There are cameras everywhere.  We have a huge class divide.  We seem to be in a state of perpetual war.  Our government and our politicians are continually lying to us, and so is the media.

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truthseekah | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 2, 2012 at 7:46 PM (Answer #7)

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By all means, yes, we are living in an Orwellian state in the US, at least!  I have been telling people this for years. The reality seems less macabre than the book but the totalitarian control over us is pretty close.  As in 1984, most do not see the level to which they are controlled.  It is easily explained when one looks at the human psyche and its egoic tendencies.  People don't want to admit they are wrong or that their governments would do such atrocious things.

I tend to agree that George Orwell had some inside knowledge allowing for such great insights.  That, or he was a Nostradamus apostle ;)  The world makes a lot more sense when viewed from this perspective.  Perpetual wars, media propaganda run amuck, the trend toward removing our civil liberties, ignoring of our Bill of Rights, Presidential and secret government power consolidation and the mass surveillance are all testaments to books foretelling.

The technology in the private sector is capable of all the surveillance of our phones, TV and internet.  Who knows how advanced our control system is since they may be decades ahead, or more.  It is easy to sit back and think our gornment is going after the "bad guys" but we all know how power corrupts.  The name of the game is control and those who have it strive for more and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.  It's naive to think otherwise.

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truthseekah | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 4, 2012 at 1:19 PM (Answer #8)

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That being said, their system does not work if we aren't willing participants.  Once enough people wake up, the control system will collapse.  Many believe that is what is happening now.  I'm on the fence.

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rrteacher | College Teacher | (Level 1) Educator Emeritus

Posted October 7, 2012 at 2:06 AM (Answer #9)

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There are some very interesting conspiratorial claims on this thread, but unfortunately very little evidence to back them up. Simply saying that we don't recognize "the level to which we are controlled" does not suffice as evidence--perhaps we don't recognize the pernicious tentacles of the state in our everyday lives because they are not, in fact, there.

Could we be more diligent in our protection of civil liberties in this country? Absolutely. And I'll agree that the last decade or so has seen some disturbing trends--warrantless surveillance and the use of drones to name just two. But it seems a bit of a reach to claim that the citizens of the United States are in any way subjected to the kind of totalitarian control that Orwell explores in 1984

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truthseekah | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 9, 2012 at 6:04 PM (Answer #10)

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There are some very interesting conspiratorial claims on this thread, but unfortunately very little evidence to back them up. Simply saying that we don't recognize "the level to which we are controlled" does not suffice as evidence--perhaps we don't recognize the pernicious tentacles of the state in our everyday lives because they are not, in fact, there.

Could we be more diligent in our protection of civil liberties in this country? Absolutely. And I'll agree that the last decade or so has seen some disturbing trends--warrantless surveillance and the use of drones to name just two. But it seems a bit of a reach to claim that the citizens of the United States are in any way subjected to the kind of totalitarian control that Orwell explores in 1984

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

If one believes the media and government that we are the "good guys" then propaganda is something other countries do (usually communist or socialist).  If, on the other hand, you are of the perspective of having broken free of the manipulative spell, then you can see the many layers of control mixed with the illusion of freedom.  "Proof" is subjective here.  I can list probably hundreds of examples of proofs our government is Orwellian, but they will remain only claims if one holds tight to the defense of their world view.

As with politicians, our minds follow suit when it comes to spinning "reality" to fit nicely in our own paradigms.  One view of drones is they are a benign means of protecting the people.  Another sees evidence of a malevolent police state bent on surveilling every step we take.

Patriot Act, notoriously error-ridden "watch lists" and "no fly" lists, TSA, profiling (ethnic/religious), assassinations, torture and indefinite detention of US citizens without habeus corpus, military industrial complex bent on perpetual wars, drones, warrantless searches and seizures, NSA-Google surveillance of internet, SOPA/PIPA/CISPA, militarization of police, immunization of accountability.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -Benjamin Franklin

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truthseekah | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 13, 2012 at 3:34 AM (Answer #12)

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.  He knew full we'll the evils of governments, no matter how pure the initial intent.

The hard fought wins for liberty have been systematically taken away in the US and many other places in the world. I do not spit on the freedoms established that cost so many lives. Rather, I reject the tyranny that is the US government today and am voicing my displeasure. Since the establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913, liberties have been eroded. If one truly looks at the those who are establishing and manipulating governments, only then will the pieces fit together. 

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted October 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM (Answer #13)

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.  He knew full we'll the evils of governments, no matter how pure the initial intent.

The hard fought wins for liberty have been systematically taken away in the US and many other places in the world. I do not spit on the freedoms established that cost so many lives. Rather, I reject the tyranny that is the US government today and am voicing my displeasure. Since the establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913, liberties have been eroded. If one truly looks at the those who are establishing and manipulating governments, only then will the pieces fit together. 

By the way, I like your new avatar, Mr Truthseekah.

I'm going to do you a VERY big favour. I'm going to send you on a course. It is a very interesting course on a subject that you love... the role of money in history. It is six hours long and worthwhile. It has a whole hour on the Rothschild dynasty. And, unlike your usual sources, it is well researched. I'm not saying it is 'right'. But it is highly rigourous. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xx_5PuLIzc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZWJ7WPVD_c

Please try not to watch it with a barrage of unshiftable pre-conceived objections. 

 

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egan26 | Student, Grade 9 | (Level 1) Honors

Posted October 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM (Answer #15)

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It has. Check these websites out.

 

inforwars.com

prisonplanet.tv

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted October 18, 2012 at 10:03 PM (Answer #16)

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More ad hominem attacks, eh?

No, Truthseekah. It is not an ad hominem to point out the inconsistencies in their opinion. I did not say a single thing about you, merely your methodology.

Did you watch the series on money, yet?

 

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elfgirl | Student, Undergraduate | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 22, 2012 at 1:21 PM (Answer #17)

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The dystopia in 1984 was a pitiless futuristic world where every scrap of individuality was brutally crushed and where any deviation from the continuous performance of total humiliating conformity was ruthlessly punished. There was no privacy, no freedom of speech, or even thought, no culture, no discussion and no appeal. The state was a monstrous all-seeing, all-powerful merciless machine which only cared about its only survival.

If we were living in such a state, then everyone who had contributed to this thread, (and even everyone who had read it without reporting it immediately to the authorities) would now be being subjected to the worst torture imaginable, or dead. So, I'm sorry, but claiming America is similar to 1984 is just infuriating, childish nonsense.

P.S. who're you gonna vote for in the free and fair democratic election next month?

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acompanioninthetardis | Student, Undergraduate | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 30, 2014 at 3:03 AM (Answer #18)

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After reading the book and analyzing the possibilities, there is a high chance of our countries turning into the totalitarian world as displayed by Orwell in 1984. In fact, the reader gets the feeling that Orwell is trying to warn us to be cautious about our future decisions by showing us the possibility of the world of Oceania. Orwell portrays Oceania realistically enough to convince contemporary readers that such a society has, in fact, existed and could exist again if people forget the lessons taught by history, or fail to guard themselves against tyrannical and totalitarian governments.

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