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Does God exist?Explain what you take to be the strongest argument or reason to believe...

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ycalderon21 | Student, Undergraduate | (Level 1) eNoter

Posted July 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM via web

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Does God exist?

Explain what you take to be the strongest argument or reason to believe that God exists or the strongest argument or reason to believe he does not exist.

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pohnpei397 | College Teacher | (Level 3) Distinguished Educator

Posted July 20, 2012 at 7:07 PM (Answer #2)

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The strongest argument for the existence of God, in my opinion, is the existence of the universe.  It may well be implausible to assume God exists, but the whole idea that the universe even exists is implausible in itself.  If our universe can exist, I see nothing outrageous about believing that God exists and God created that universe.

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literaturenerd | High School Teacher | (Level 2) Educator Emeritus

Posted July 20, 2012 at 7:45 PM (Answer #3)

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I would suggest that something had to create the universes as we know it. When driving around, looking at the awesome scenery, I cannot help but think about the beauty of it all. Given that nothing else has bee actually proven, why not give credit to such an omnipotent power as God?

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mwalter822 | Teacher | (Level 2) Educator

Posted July 21, 2012 at 12:32 AM (Answer #4)

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I agree with posts 2 and 3, as far as the physical world is concerned. But I find the strongest proof in the way in which people care for and love each other. I don't believe that a godless universe would be populated by people who were willing to sacrifice for each other. This is the part of God that lives within us working through us.

 

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stolperia | (Level 1) Educator Emeritus

Posted July 21, 2012 at 3:18 AM (Answer #5)

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Absolutely, God exists. Evidence of God's existence can be found in the infinite diversity and detail of all creation, in the spirit of love and caring found within the heart of humanity, in the miracle of life in all its richness.

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salimj | College Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 21, 2012 at 5:28 AM (Answer #6)

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I am sorry to disappoint all the above debaters. I am of the opinion that god does not exist. All these things are just stories made by people for their own benefits. My question is that if God exist how many gods are there? What is the difference between god and human beings? If god knows everything what is the need of prayer?

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 22, 2012 at 5:09 AM (Answer #7)

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In reply to post 6:

There is one God only, the Creator. This subject has been discussed in detail under topic 'Proof of God's Existance' in eNotes discussions and you may refer to the following link:

http://www.enotes.com/religion/discuss/proof-gods-existence-117996?start=0

There has been extensive discussion by an evolutionist and a creationist (a follower of Islam) with a total of 96 post till this date.

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wannam | High School Teacher | (Level 3) Educator

Posted July 22, 2012 at 8:54 PM (Answer #8)

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When I look at the scientific evidence of how our world and our planet came to be, I cannot understand a disbelief in God.  It is too perfect and too precise to have happened by chance.  As to how many Gods there are, I personally believe there is only one.  I agree that some cultures have invented gods and/or goddesses to explain the world around them.  For instance, it is often believed that the Greeks invented the story of Zeus to explain the lightning.  However, I do not believe that all stories of any god are a myth.  As to the difference between humans and God, I would say we are as different as the potter and the clay.  God is a supernatural being while we are carbon based life forms. 

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salimj | College Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 23, 2012 at 6:20 AM (Answer #9)

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Thank u for ur comments. If God exists which is the right God and which is the correct religion?

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 23, 2012 at 7:26 AM (Answer #10)

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In reply to 9:

Beautiful concluding remarks in post 8:

As to the difference between humans and God, I would say we are as different as the potter and the clay.  God is a supernatural being while we are carbon based life forms. - Wannam

God is only one - The Creator. Regarding religions, I would say that all divine religions are correct. However all, except the last i.e. Islam, were time bound or were for the specific nation, place or tribe. Islam reaffirm all the previous religions and prophets.

Say ye: "We believe in God, and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and his children, and what was given to Jesus, and what was given to the prophets from the Lord; we separate not one from the rest of them, and we be obedient to Him." Quran 2: 136

Islam is universal - for the whole mankind.

This (Quran) is an enlightenment for mankind and guidance and mercy for a people who are convinced. Quran 45:20

Though all religions are true but were valid for a time. Islam completes the chain of Divine religions.

This day, have I completed My blessing upon you, and have accepted l-Islam as a religion; Quran 5:3

And with the completion of His blessing, no room is left for any other religion in terms of correctness and completeness.

 

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 24, 2012 at 12:37 AM (Answer #11)

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Explain the strongest argument that God exists or the strongest argument he does not. - by ycalderon21

 

One problem is that this word 'God' can mean a thousand different fuzzy abstract things. But if you're refering to the petty little gods specified by religious books, then the strongest argument against them is that it's perfectly obvious to anyone who has two eyes and a free mind that such gods can not exist. Ridiculous contradictory magic stories of talking snakes and flying horses or demons and Gods with elephant heads are simply myths from the dawn of civilisation. There has never been a single demonstration that there is a supernatural being fiddling with the events of the world. It is all just fairy tales and wishful thinking.

There are estimated to be maybe 200,000,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe. And on average, each galaxy contains 200,000,000,000,000 stars. And yet religion expects us to believe that the  super-powerful creator of this vastness constructed it just so He could neurotically scrutinise every single trivial action of the inhabitants of just one little planet. And it just so happens to be ours.

Forty thousand trillion stars in the Universe, and yet The Divine Creator will personally sentence me to be tortured for eternity, unless I believe the very confused accounts of what some Jewish guy said 2000 years ago.

Really? C'mon, gimme a break.

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 24, 2012 at 6:31 AM (Answer #12)

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200,000,000,000,000 stars. And yet religion expects us to believe that the  super-powerful creator of this vastness constructed it just so He could neurotically scrutinise every single trivial action of the inhabitants of just one little planet. And it just so happens to be ours.

Forty thousand trillion stars in the Universe, and yet The Divine Creator will personally sentence me to be tortured for eternity, - Frizzy

Welcome back to eNotes discussions after about a month.

But who said that The Creator is busy only with this tiny job? This is mentioned because it is something that relates to humans. We can not perceive His designs for the universe in entirety and even if we know, how is it going to make our life more beneficial to humanity and the planet earth?

Being the Creator, He wants us to be His obedient servants.


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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 24, 2012 at 7:04 PM (Answer #13)

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Being the Creator, God wants us to be His obedient servants. - Najm

Najm? NO-ONE has EVER heard God say he wants obedient servants. But we've ALL heard men claim God said it. God NEVER SAYS ANYTHING. We only have other men's reports of God's views. And how very, very, very, convenient for those men, God ALWAYS puts them in charge.

Imagine the scene, Najm, an ancient tribe in Palestine, 3000 years ago... 

"Erm... excuse me...Hello? Everybody? I have decided to award myself absolute authority over you all, OK?"

"What? No way. Push off."

"No, no, no you don't understand. You have to do everything I say."

"Oh yeah? Sez who?"

"Umm... well... erm... it was... God, actually. Yes, that's it. God told me that you are all my, aha-ha-ha, excuse me, his obedient servants. And God has told me to kill you if you disagree. OK? Now, Can you all get to work building a wonderful big temple. And do please remember to pay your taxes, it's very important. After all, we are all God's obedient servants, aren't we? Thank you. Oh and could you just line up, I need to cut the tip of your penises off, God says I must."

And for the next 3,000 years the Popes, Priests, Imams, Arch-Bishops, Rabbis, Kings, Emperors, et al sat on their fat backsides, making a fortune from poor people. All because you believe God gave them authority. You are merely the 'obedient servant' of a tribal, warlord who died 1400 years ago, not God.

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 25, 2012 at 12:10 PM (Answer #14)

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In reply to 13:

And for the next 3,000 years the Popes, Priests, Imams, Arch-Bishops, Rabbis, Kings, Emperors, et al sat on their fat backsides, making a fortune from poor people. All because you believe God gave them authority. - Frizzy

God did not give authority to anyone to plunder public money or do injustice. Look at the rule of Abu Bakar and Omar, the caliphs of Mohammad, and see how much they care for the poor and to dispense justice.

O ye who believe! Stand up for the sake of God to bear witness with justice, and let not enmity of people carry you away from doing equity, be equitable; that is nearer to reverence, and reverence God; Surely God knows what you do. Quran 5:8

We have discussed all this and much more in detail under topic 'Proof of God's Existence'.

http://www.enotes.com/religion/discuss/proof-gods-existence-117996?start=0

But no doubt prejudice does not care for rationality.

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 26, 2012 at 10:50 AM (Answer #15)

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God did not give authority to anyone to plunder public money or do injustice. Najm.

I agree. In fact, I'd go further... God did not give authority to anyone to do anything. Every society justifies its moral structure using 'God's seal of approval'. Every single one. But, of course, every society has different versions of God's wishes. You believe Muhammad was given a unique insight. But there are countless other religious leaders who claim they received God's message (Sai Baba, for example). Mohammad is just one of a large group of people.

Mohammad claimed God allowed him superior access than allows you or I. Muhammad claimed he was 'special'. We only have Mohammad's word for this. Despite endless conflict and bloodshed, God is refuses to clarify which 'prophet' is the real one. Why?

God said one thing to Jesus; something else to Mohammad; something else again to Buddha; to Guru Nanak; to Jean d'Arc; to Sai Baba; to Zoroaster; to Joseph Smith; to L. Ron Hubbard; to Ugg the Caveman; etc etc etc. But God NEVER says anything to us.

Now you can try to pick the one true prophet from this confusion of false prophets, if you like. But personally, I prefer to learn from modern psychology and sociology, which suggest that hearing God's voice is called schizophrenia and such delusions have inspired millions of people to believe they were 'God's Chosen Prophet.' 

But God never once spoke a single word to any of them. Never.

 

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 26, 2012 at 11:31 AM (Answer #16)

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In reply to 15:

Mohammad claimed God allowed him superior access than allows you or I. Muhammad claimed he was 'special'. - Frizzy

Muhammad never says he was special. God asks Mohammad:

Say: "I am but a human being like you, it has been revealed to me that your God is only one God; then whoever hopes to meet his Lord should therefore do good deeds and join no one in the service of  his Lord." Quran 18:110

And God did not create the conflict as you put it.

God is refuses to clarify which 'prophet' is the real one. Why? -Frizzy

He has clarified every thing and brought an end to the chain of prophets. Please see my post 10 with reference to Quran 2:136, 45:20 and 5:3. There are numerous other similar verses like these in Quran that reaffirm the continuity of the same religion with the same principles. When something has been perfected, there is no room left for further improvement. Please note it is perfection by the Creator and NOT by a human being that leaves room for modifications later. Mohammad was the last prophet and all prophets after him are false.

You have the right to choose and learn whatever you like, no one is forcing you to believe in God.

Let there be no compulsion in religion, the right has surely been made distinct from the wrong, then whoever disbelieves in the transgressor and believes in God, he has, then, got hold of the firm handle, no breaking therefor: and God is Hearing, Knowing. Quran 2:256

 

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 26, 2012 at 12:13 PM (Answer #17)

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When presented with the point that there have been thousands and thousands of prophets, you countered by presenting the stereotypical prophet-blah from your stereotypical prophet as proof that your prophet was THE real prophet. Najm, that is a truly ridiculous thing to try and do. Look what you wrote...

 

"Muhammad never says he was special. God asks Mohammad:

Say: "I am but a human being like you, it has been revealed to me that your God is only one God; then whoever hopes to meet his Lord should therefore do good deeds and join no one in the service of  his Lord." Quran 18:110"

 

BUT, NAJM, COME ON, MUHAMMAD SAID VERSE 18:110, HELLOOO?!? Geez, Najm how can you possibly present such patently ridiculous circular reasoning??? You stated,

1) We know for certain that Muhammad was a normal man because The Lord God Almighty himself said that Muhammad was a normal man.

2) And we know for certain The Lord God Almighty himself said that Muhammad was a normal man, because Muhammad said he did.

If you can't see a GALACTIC-SIZED problem with that line of 'reasoning' Najm, then you are incapable of free thought.

Can you try and demonstrate how Muhammad is essentially different from all the other false prophets in history? And please, for God's sake, do not just cite the flipping Koran because that would be committing a humongous and obvious LOGICAL FALLACY!

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 27, 2012 at 5:27 AM (Answer #18)

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In reply to 17:

In many eNotes discussions you have called Mohammad as illiterate man of the desert. Yes, he was illiterate but then how could he say that the body of Pharaoh drowned in sea will be preserved when it was not even mentioned in Bible.

"Today we will preserve your body (O Pharaoh), that you may be a Sign to those who come after you! But indeed, many among mankind are neglectful of Our Signs." (Al Quran 10:92)

The above has been proved. Also how could he mention stages of human embryonic development in such detail?

We created man from an extract of clay.  Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed.  Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... Quran 23:12-14

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm

And how could he mention the determination of sex by sperm.

And it is He who has made thee pairs - male and female. From the sperm when it is placed. Quran 53:45-46

These cannot be the worlds of an illiterate dessert man who lived 1400 years back. Surely these are the words of God. So when you say:

Najm how can you possibly present such patently ridiculous circular reasoning??? - Frizzy

It is not circular reasoning. We have the same old problem as we had in many previous discussion. You cannot concede to the idea that God is the Creator and he sent any message to mankind because you do not believe in God whereas I do.

 

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 27, 2012 at 10:43 AM (Answer #19)

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Najm, you always try to cherry pick tiny little snippits from the koran and then try to stretch them into some huge claim. It is a little tragic to be honest. It is very embarrassing, watching you try to stitch a whole magnificent tapestry from a few centimeters of bare thread.

The claims in the Koran about embryoes are utterly vague and unclear and they were commonly held in Muhammad's day. And apart from anything else, you quote includes this...

We [God] created man from an extract of clay.

The koran simply isn't a miraculous scientific text-book. Clay is composed of phyllosilicates, (Al,Si)3O4. We are not made of clay. Doesn't God know that???

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 28, 2012 at 7:59 AM (Answer #20)

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In reply to 20:

I have to rely on Quran as it is the truth and not science the half truth when I have to choose. Secondly you have agreed that Quran provides you with truth in case of Pharaoh's preservation and sex determination by sperm.

And regarding your remarks about embryo:

The claims in the Koran about embryos are utterly vague and unclear and they were commonly held in Muhammad's day. - Frizzy

I can just laugh, something that was not known to the west relatively very recently was commonly held in Mohammad's day - What an ignorant west!

The koran simply isn't a miraculous scientific text-book. Clay is composed of phyllosilicates, (Al,Si)3O4. We are not made of clay. Doesn't God know that??? - Frizzy

Quran never claims to be a miraculous scientific text-book, and who knows better than God, all Knowing. Surely bone-dry clay is mainly aluminium silicate but where do you find it like that? In nature it is found combined with other minerals in addition to water, salts and organic matter that are essential for life and the extract of clay are these substances, are not they? You do not extract Aluminium from clay but its oxide ores, mainly Bauxite. God knows very well that we are made from the extract of clay as He has created us.

 

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frizzyperm | College Teacher | (Level 3) Valedictorian

Posted July 29, 2012 at 12:49 AM (Answer #21)

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The Quran never claims to be a miraculous scientific text-book - Najm.

WTF?! So why have you spent 6+ months insisting you can show me that The Koran contains academic knowledge too advanced for Muhammad??????

Najm, I tried to be patient with you, because you are easily the most intelligent and educated non-western muslim that we have had on Enotes. But your arguments jump around like a frog in a frying pan. As a teacher who can evaluate performance, I have to say that every single one of the previous 5 or 6 non-western muslims on Enotes have been extremely poor intellectually, and very fundamentalist. So I was gentle with you up to now, but this latest comment is the limit.

For the last 6 months you have insisted that the koran contains unique scientific knowledge. Now you inform me that you think the koran is not a scientific book!?!?! I am utterly lost and confused by your latest response and I'm 99% sure that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. 

 

You show no consistency. You're a logical butterfly, skipping from point to point. Each point taken individually may appear to be a reasonable answer to my posts, but taken collectively they add up to a spaghetti of nonsense. 

So, Najm... if the koran is some sort of science-book-from-God, then stop wasting my time and go win the Nobel prize. If it isn't a science book, then, you lose and it's just a book of silly magic stories written by primitive goat-herders.

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najm1947 | Elementary School Teacher | (Level 1) Valedictorian

Posted July 29, 2012 at 10:42 AM (Answer #22)

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Thanks Frizzy for being patient with me and thanks again for all your the remarks about me. There is no inconsistency in my reasoning and I am going to clarify it here once for all.

Quran is basically a guidance for mankind from the Creator. To prove that Quran is from the Creator, God has mentioned few facts that were not known to man at the time Quran was revealed. We came to know about them through science, and that is all about it. How one can call it confusing.

I understand your problem. You don't believe in God nor you want to. So when I present some facts from Quran, in God's words that can not be denied, you get anoyed. Surely you are left with no choice but to show your agony because logic forces you to believe in God but probably your ego does not let you do that. So be happy and I am not forcing you to listen to me.

If you feel I am wasting you time, you can make your decision in not answering my posts. I hope manys other on eNotes are benefiting from what I say.

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homin007 | Student, Undergraduate | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted September 8, 2012 at 3:01 AM (Answer #23)

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As a Muslim, I feel that my faith not logic or reasoning  is central to my own personal belief in God, and I would not try to spend time explaining this, first one way then the other, without a real or proper organised case, to someone who simply doesnt believe.

Thus, it seems to me that Mr najm1947 is just wasting time. Mr frizzyperm is at liberty to believe or not to believe what he wishes and pleases, and that's that.

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discoverer | Student, Undergraduate | (Level 2) eNoter

Posted September 9, 2012 at 12:51 PM (Answer #24)

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I don't want to impose my opinions on anyone but seriously, the idea of god is not at all convincing. Follow reason and logic and you will understand things in a much better way. I think one of the strongest reason why the idea of "god" has survived this long is that it is much easier to throw in the towel and pray but just imagine doctors doing that.... seems horrible, isn't it? I could go on and on and give tons of examples but following reason and logic seems to be the safest bet.   

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hadjartahax | Student, Grade 9 | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted September 9, 2012 at 2:05 PM (Answer #25)

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I believe God does exist. I think there is one God, one creator who has created all of us and everything around us; the tree's, grass, animals, more nature. I do NOT belive in the 'big bang' theory. It is all made up and cannot be true. How could all those things come out of nothing and everything just came together by itself? This can't be right. Someone must have created them, God created them. There is a big difference between God and us. A BIG difference. He can so everything, see everything, hear everything, want everything, smell everything.. We can't do a thousand things at the same time, we can't see someone on the other side of the world, but God can.

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pokepal101 | Student, Grade 9 | (Level 2) eNoter

Posted September 15, 2012 at 7:53 AM (Answer #26)

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Does the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn exist? Who knows!

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luiji | Student, Grade 11 | (Level 1) Salutatorian

Posted October 20, 2012 at 1:55 PM (Answer #27)

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Thank u for ur comments. If God exists which is the right God and which is the correct religion?

Which is the right God and which is the correct religion?

If I were to answer this question, you wouldn't understand because you are ignorant of God and of faith.

But if God didn't exist, how can you account for the wonders of this universe? What out there has the power and intelligence to create life? Or maybe you're one of those who believe that everything came about from nothing and a big bang...

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