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In reply to #63: I'm with you, sister. I wish enotes would not allow this type of discussion. It inevitably devolves from an intelligent conversation into an argument over whose system of beliefs is correct. The issue will never be solved!

OK,

Who's to say that God did not come about into being through a scientific process?

And if God can be with everyone at once and hear all prayers, who's to say that God is not just the collective whole of humanity?

And here’s a crazy one: If we are the children of God, and if we are playing around with science and are beginning to create new life, who's to say that we're not just growing up and becoming more like our Father... more like God?

Maybe we are God. Maybe we’re not. Maybe it doesn’t matter. I sustain to be humbly open to whatever is the TRUTH. Maybe the truth is different for everyone. Science considers all angles.

I am not going to blindly believe any one thing. Not my own ideas and especially not yours. I do however appreciate and understand the logical alignments of truth that science can provide. Science is a very powerful TOOL for finding and explaining TRUTH. It is not the antichrist.

cont.

cont.

Just some food for thought because I read between the lines in life rather than rigorously bend to them as some do with the “good book”.

Also, if you're picking up on my distaste for the IGNORANCE, here is a virtual high five to you. * If you are feeling angered by my opinion on this subject, I propose to you that you talk to a therapist (another benefit brought to you by the evils of science). If you think that I am completely out of my mind, I suggest you that you should suggest to me that I talk to a therapist because they are specially trained to understand diverse streams of thought and are much less likely to STONE ME TO DEATH or BURN ME AT THE STEAK.

One last thing- Society is better thanks to science. Less fighting, more understanding. And the best part about it is that science will not feed you a single book as a means to control you- science is simply a healthy, logical approach to life.

Seventy-three posts and still going strong. A very lively discussion. I had resisted the temptation to chip in the discussion because, I am not that well acquainted with contents of the Bible. But I see that the scope of discussion has now expanded in to science versus religion.

A careful examination of history of science will clarify that the science it self has originated out of the thoughts and the methods originally developed by what we call now religion. Let us take the example of the ancient Hindu view that every things in this Universe consists of five basic elements earth, water, air, fire, and space. As per the state of science at that time this was the best explanation. But a few centuries ago, with availability of greater insights, scientists started to think of more basic common constituent of everything in the world and came to the conclusion that this whole universe consists of just about 100 or so elements. Then the understanding increased further and these elements were reduced to three common components - electrons, positrons and neutrons. But the advance of science did not stop here - now we believe these components themselves to be split many times over in ever smaller components.

We can think of ancient religion as embryo into which the present science has grown. It is definitely mistake to not to recognize that the embryo and the baby are same. But a much greater mistake some vehement supporters of science make is to consider science today as a fully grown self sufficient adult. It is quite possible that the science today is just a new born baby which still needs to be nurtured and helped to become an adult.

The issue will never be solved! - Linda Allen

The issue is already solved! Evolution is perfectly provable and creationism is easily disproved. The argument starts when fundamentalist Christians behave in a very un-Christian way in order to confuse, mislead and mis-educate to protect their religion against the truth. It is a hot topic, but one worth fighting for. The truth is important. And the provable truth is evolutionary theory.

You evolved from earlier forms of primate and you are an animal; an ordinary member of the animal kingdom. That's a fact. If The Bible says otherwise, it is the Bible's problem. It is not science's fault that the Bible is wrong and attacking science is simply going to make Christians look uneducated and medieval.

The belief in the biblical story of creation does not negate evolution. Science has proven time and time again that species develop and evolve. Take for example a moth that lives in a region where there is a large amount of polution. This pure white moth will not be able to survive and hide against polluted surroundings, so it evol ves into a dirty gray color in order to blend in. Anthropologists have documented that man has evolved into a species with less hair and one who walks more upright. My understanding of Christian beliefs does not indicate that Christianity negates evolution.

In reply to #1: I would suggest that before anyone gets into a heated debate about the proposition that "Biblical Creation is a proven fact"t seems to me that there should be some agreement on what the words "proven" and "fact" are to mean during the argument. Without defining those two terms the argument for or against this proposition will have no meaning.  A bit like tilting at windmills in the night. The word "proven", is defined in my basic Webster's Dictionary as "tested by experiment" or, "to be found by experience and trial". The word "fact" is defined as,"a thing that has actually happened and can be proven by experiment". If those two definitions are agreeable then the debate can proceed.  If my definitions of these two basic words are not agreeable, then may I suggest that this is the place where this argument should start.

In reply to #1:

You have to be kidding.  The Bible is full of errors.  For example, the emphasis is on a flat earth ... as believed in those days.  When the devil meets up with Jesus, he takes Jesus up on a high mountain from where one can supposedly see "all the kingdoms of the world".  Which of course is an impossibility.  Big error.

Genesis itself is full of error.  It is a description of a world as thought a few thousand years ago.  In order to make it right, Genesis has to be interpreted completely away from what was intended by the original writers.  Genesis describes a world which is in essence an upside down bowl at the bottom of some deep ocean.  It is as accurate/true as any of other genesis myths in tens of thousands of other religions.

The Bible is just one of the many written religious texts, none of which are reflective of reality. 

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