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from post10, "The only difference between Hebrews and Canaanites was religion. In order to keep the Hebrews holy... strong measures were needed."

'Keeping the Hebrews holy' is your phrase for ethnic cleansing? Well, after all,

'strong measures were needed'

Why do religious people obliterate anyone who disagrees with them (and their family, animals and crops, yea,  unto the tenth generation) and then claim moral superiority? Why, because...

'strong measures were needed'

Why do Christians moralize at Gays for showing love, but then say, "The writers of the OT don't moralize on what happened."and equivocate about wiping out entire cities? Why? Because

'strong measures were needed'

Why is it OK to harshly judge other groups but excuse your own? Christians judge non-Christians by Christian morality but spectacularly failing to repsect their own morals laws. I don't understand it. Oh wait...

'strong measures were needed'

Historically, The Christians have claimed to love people but displayed aggression. Last week you openly gloated about Iraqi soldiers being cowards. You revelled in the terrifying force of the American military and today you say you strive to follow Jesus's gentle pacifist example. Why didn't you show love for the frightened young Iraqis facing death? Oh yeah, silly of me,

Because strong measures were needed.

Dearly beloved, the eternal Christian creed is to love and serve our fellow man without thought for self and to respect the word of God. We always try to remember God's word in our lives. But sometimes, to ensure that Christian Love is protected for the good of the world, regrettably, we have to place ourselves outside of Christian morality in order to defend Christian morality.

Obviously God and Jesus left many many laws which stipulate how we should live, but we are certain that these laws can't apply in times of great need. In times of great need it is justifiable to set those laws on one side, safe for a future day..

Our virtues and high morals are like our 'Sunday Best Clothes' which we wear on sunny days to show our friends. Look at the finery of our value system. Feel the quality of this belief. But surely, if you are threatened or offended by your neighbor's unholy behaviour, then it is morally defensibile to take off your Sunday Best. Our virtues would last a generation if we didn't defend them.

Only a fool would expect moral virtue to apply to important situations. Strong measures are sometimes needed. But after the strong measures are complete, we will put on our fine moral clothes again and abide within God's laws until the next time they are in danger.

After all, it is all about God's love... as long as we are not threatened, obviously.

In reply to #11: May the blessings of God be with you in this time of celebration of the advent of the Christ.

...In the 4th century, Christians assigned December 25 (the Winter Solstice on the Julian calendar) as Christ's birthday (thus Christmas) because pagans already observed this day as a holiday. As the dates of Saturnalia are not precisely coincident with Christmas, a more refined argument is that Christmas was the feast of Sol Invictus, which was on December 25.

Happy Saturnalia, Linda, Praise and Thanks be unto Lord Saturn at this happy time.

What ever happened to Saturn anyway? Did he die or something? One minute ruler of the Universe and supreme God, (with millions of people offering prayers, sacrifices, martyrs, temples, priests, festivals and so on.) Next minute... *Poof!* Gone.

D'ya think 1800 years ago, Roman citizens Lindaticus and Fizzyicus argued about Saturn, and Lindaticus insisted that Saturn lived in her heart and watched over her? I bet Lindaticus believed in Saturn with all her heart and went to temple everyday to thank Saturn for her beautiful family and all her blessings. She said the chants. She knew Saturn loved her. She was a good Saturnian. But... there... was... no... Saturn.

And then some heretics come along and stole his festival for their own God. And suddenly Saturn is out of fashion and forgotten.

Strange, isn't it, Gods come and go. I wonder if in 1800 years time people will say, "Jesus? Wasn't he some old religious Guy? He sounds vaguely familiar."

Wow, this topic has gone majorly astray. Chasing rabbits much? Here's my two cents: Yes, the Bible has certain contradictions, but like most literture, the contradictions serve to meet the common end of the message. Taken cumulatively, the Bible itself gives us the overall roadmap of human salvation from our own sin. Those sins may be portrayed with different levels of severity throughout the text, but in the biblical God's eyes, all sin is sin. Be it murder or white lies, the iniquity is judged the same.

A previous poster was absolutely correct in asserting the commonalities of the OT and NT -- so much in the former points to the latter. I am not here to engage in pointless rhetoric for one side or the other, though I do feel that the Bible is more than a simple historical document. Instituting its untainted and untampered-with teachings in one's life can result in positive outcomes. But that's just my experience.

In reply to #6:

I apologize for the long delay, but I'm not able to visit every day.

I'm not easily offended, so feel free to criticize if you wish.

If you are interested in how I came to my understanding, please refer to my page on Seed of Promise, as follows:      http://www.geocities.com/stan34476/A_SeedPromise.html

I'd be happy to answer any questions about it.

In reply to #11:

Sarcasm is quite a weapon, isn't it?

In reply to #17: "Sarcasm is quite a weapon, isn't it?"

Not when you compare it to a Black Hawk helicopter loaded with cluster bombs, heavy machines guns and air-to-surface missiles; flown by a highly-trained pilot who's been taught not to take personal responsibility for his actions.

Compared to that it's just harmless hot-air.

"The fault is not within the stars, but in ourselves!"  Does the scripture contradict itself? Yes.  Can it simply be interpreted to one's liking?  Yes.   Does it provide guidance to live a good life?  Yes.  Don't screw your neighbor's wife, don't steal his oxen, Love thy neighbor as thyself, etc. Can it be twisted for some political agenda under the guise of virtue?  Yes.  "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" caused a bit of trouble in Europe as well as Colonial New England.  Are the writings historical narrative or the inspired word of God? Yes. 

Maybe it's not important how you interpret it, but instead what you do and how you live your life according to that interpretation.

Before one accuses anyone or any writing of contradiction, one must be aware of how language works, especially in the ancient world. First, of all the bible does not pretend to have mathematical or scientific precision. So, if the bible speaks of the sun setting, this is not wrong. It is only describing this from the point of view of observation - sort of like the figure of speech "four corners of the earth."

Moreover, the bible is a literary book and all literary books have artistic ability to bend texts to make literary (or in this case theological) points. Finally, the bible is a book of many different perspectives and voices. So, for example, if you and I go to party and describe it, we will have two different accounts. Some will even question whether we went to the same party. Perspectives are different and they always will be. This does not entail contradiction. So, if we do not impose modern day notions of mathematical precision on an ancient text, then I think the idea of contradictions will substantially fade.